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Download This Topic Previous topic Next topic	DTI versus CCI
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Jayne Gould

Tiki Lounger

Joined: 13 Jul 2007

Posts: 11

Location: New York

Posted:
Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:22 pm

Wait up... I'm asking about the CCI version using InDesign CS2 called Newsgate....

Harris? Don't know anything about that. The Star Ledger in Jersey is on Harris .

Sigh, if only IT managers were creative...
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Last edited by Jayne Gould on Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Kilometer31

Maestro

Joined: 11 May 2004

Posts: 574

Location: San Antonio Express-News

Posted:
Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:57 pm

Jayne Gould wrote::

Wait up... I'm asking about the CCI version using InDesign CS2 called Newsgate....

Jayne:

It may not be coming across clear. Here's the bullet-point version:

* CCI offers two production systems, NewsDesk and the newer NewsGate.
* Both can be used with LayoutChamp, InDesign or both.
* Currently, they support InDesign CS2. CS3 support is expected in maybe November.
* Neither NewsGate nor NewsDesk currently supports a workflow with InDesign that includes full workflow and (more important) accurate H&J. The problem is that MS Word (CCI's text editor) and InDesign don't H&J against each other.
* Next versions of both NewsDesk and NewsGate (6.13 and 6.14) will pair InDesign with InCopy as a text editor. Wa-la, accurate H&J.

Bottom line: InDesign is gaining more integration within CCI, but does not have parity with LayoutChamp in regard to production workflow. (But yes, InDesign blows the doors of LayoutChamp as a design tool.)
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Jayne Gould

Tiki Lounger

Joined: 13 Jul 2007

Posts: 11

Location: New York

Posted:
Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:37 am

Many, many thanks for the details. How did you know I was blond?
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Andria Krewson

Juke Box Hero

Joined: 28 Feb 2005

Posts: 34

Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

Posted:
Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:50 am

Bumping this and seeking concrete information in Charlotte (CCI version 5.5.5.26):

1. Has anyone worked at a place where editors switched from Word to InCopy? How'd that go?

2. Who's working on Newsgate already and is it wonderful or painful?

3. Has the person who sought information here earlier about using Layoutchamp for magazines gathered further details or experience?

4. Is anyone using InDesign for centerpieces and then using Layoutchamp for the design of the rest of a page and section? Does that work OK or is it a workflow mess? Is it worth using Incopy/InDesign sometimes to solve the hyphenation problems at a cost of a clean workflow?

Thanks for any thoughts...(Martin, I know what you think, and the animations always make me laugh. But others who are working on CCI 6.X please weigh in as well).

Kilometer31

Maestro

Joined: 11 May 2004

Posts: 574

Location: San Antonio Express-News

Posted:
Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:41 pm

Andria:

Tampa, Orange County and I think Columbus are currently using NewsGate. I've not heard of any experiences.

NYT, Boston and (I think) Oklahoma City are the only CCI papers I know of using the InDesign integration. The InCopy part isn't released yet, so no experiences there.

I know Boston was quite unhappy about the practical aspects of adding InCopy -- another app to support and train users on. Probably the biggest hassle with InCopy will be the loss of all your Visual Basic macros in Word. InCopy has a healthy support for scripting -- but sounds like you'd have to create them all from scratch.

Boston uses a workflow of building partially in InDesign then converting to LayoutChamp format to complete the page. It's pretty limited (but the integration was very limited when they started working with it).
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Andria Krewson

Juke Box Hero

Joined: 28 Feb 2005

Posts: 34

Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

Posted:
Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:08 pm

Thanks, Kilometer. Appreciate the updated information.

Chin "I own SND" Wang, are you out there? How's it working in Boston?

And I know Charlotte has at least one alum in Tampa....Angela Trunzo, you out there?

Any advice for your old friends?

Dan Zedek

Action Figure

Joined: 21 Mar 2005

Posts: 24

Location: The Boston Globe

Posted:
Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:27 am

Hey, Dan Zedek from the Globe here. Chin's out on maternity leave for another week so I'll jump in. What we're using is a CCI plug-in called PageDesign that allows you to design in InDesign then convert everything into LayoutChamp. We're using it for all of our Business fronts and a few feature sections. It's quite buggy, though we've tested the next version and that works much better. Bottom line, though: what you end up with is a LayoutChamp page not an InDesign page. That's a big improvement over our current workflow of saving InDesign pages as uneditable EPS files and placing them in LayoutChamp but it's NOT the same as DTI where InDesign is the layout tool throughout production. The next version of Newsgate and NewsDesk both offer InDesign as a primary layout tool, but CCI's track record on delivering what they promise when they promise isâ€¦ erâ€¦ shaky.
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Andria Krewson

Juke Box Hero

Joined: 28 Feb 2005

Posts: 34

Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

Posted:
Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:38 am

Thanks, Dan.

So hypothetically, (no contracts signed), you'd say it would not be wise to organize design and copy editing so that some design-heavy pages were produced solely on InDesign/CCI and Incopy, while the production-heavy sections were produced through Word/CCI/Layoutchamp?

Or a more clear question: Do you have copy editors using InCopy to coordinate better with InDesign?

Kilometer31

Maestro

Joined: 11 May 2004

Posts: 574

Location: San Antonio Express-News

Posted:
Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:10 am

Andria:

The InCopy part of it hasn't been released yet (though Boston may be involved in testing it).

6.13 (due Oct. 2007) will introduce the first phase InCopy functionality. 6.14 (due Spring 2008 ... maybe) builds on it, adding additional jump-page functionality.

The way it looks like it's going: You could, theoretically, have certain pages worked totally in InDesign/InCopy without going through the convert-to-LayoutChamp process. The stories and elements are all legitimate parts of the database, so they can be edited and processed all the way through. I wouldn't get frisky with it on much beyond features pages, special sections or advance centerpieces.

Also: Reporters could probably still be best left to work in Word. The InCopy part is really key for production, when you need to see accurate H&J of the story as it is on the page.
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Andria Krewson

Juke Box Hero

Joined: 28 Feb 2005

Posts: 34

Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

Posted:
Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:13 am

Thanks, Kilo. Happy Friday.

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